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[Marc Wielage]

One issue we have had is I have everything set up in my bag and camera.  When I turn on the units the receiver will not receive any kind of signal no matter what I do.  The only solution I have found is powering down the receiver for about 30 seconds then back on.

This definitely sounds like a software bug. I'm reminded of what an old friend of mine, a longtime video engineer always says: "it's a computer... expect less!"

I assume once the D4 starts working, it stays working. I suspect this is some kind of reset/reboot issue that Lectro can solve.

--Marc W.

[justanross]

Hmmm, what were the issues? Power? Positioning? Transmission range? I'm very curious to hear how these work in the real world.

Hey Marc,

No issues with range.  As far as I have researched they have amazing range but I haven't tested this myself.

One issue we have had is I have everything set up in my bag and camera.  When I turn on the units the receiver will not receive any kind of signal no matter what I do.  The only solution I have found is powering down the receiver for about 30 seconds then back on.  It only happened to me twice.  But this show is being shot in three different cities so there are three of these units and it has happened on the other units.  We have been talking to Lectro about it.

[P-Did]

But I've also run into the same thing that Richard Ragon's talked about -- real bottom-feeders who have no clue what good sound is worth. I'd like to kill the morons who write those "Indie Films for Dummies" books who tell neophytes they can get sound crews with gear for $100 a day... 

The other misconception are young filmmakers (particularly Red users) who think they can buy a $1200 recorder and a couple of mikes, and that's all they need. No respect for the archer -- they think it's all about the arrows.

--Marc W.

I definitely run into this a lot, sometimes because of what you have described above, but also because some indie productions simply don't have the money.

But, back to the first reason, I am really trying to stress the point that a good sound package often costs way more than the camera package, that lowering rates hurts all the other soundies in the area, and in the long run sets the rate lower for what local sound is going for.

But then there is balancing that out with turning down work that you might not pick up, we have to pay the bills right?  Sometimes, I feel like I pull my hair out trying to figure this out.

[Marc Wielage]

It's all working pretty good so far.  We have had acouple issues with the D4's.  But, the sound quality of the D4 is amazing.  It's sounds just as good as a cable.

Hmmm, what were the issues? Power? Positioning? Transmission range? I'm very curious to hear how these work in the real world.

how can I get an idea of what a good rate is for these 'extras' without stepping on some unwritten rules about posting these things?

That's all part of making the deal. In two recent cases, I dealt with a lowball bid by pointing out the compromises they would run into with sound at that rate. We went back and forth a little bit, and ultimately they leaned more in my favor and it worked out OK. (In one case, I found out I was being paid the same rate as the DP.)

But I've also run into the same thing that Richard Ragon's talked about -- real bottom-feeders who have no clue what good sound is worth. I'd like to kill the morons who write those "Indie Films for Dummies" books who tell neophytes they can get sound crews with gear for $100 a day...  

The other misconception are young filmmakers (particularly Red users) who think they can buy a $1200 recorder and a couple of mikes, and that's all they need. No respect for the archer -- they think it's all about the arrows.

--Marc W.

[justanross]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to give you all an update.  So things are going pretty good.  We are using the lectro D4 and using the 4 tracks on the panasonic HDX900.  Edirol 4 track recorder as back up.  The post supervisor has set this all up.  He bought the D4's for this show.  He built all the crazy cables that we needed.  One for my 442 that comes from the TA3 stereo and line 3 and 4 which then goes to the D4 then splits to the edirol.  He also had to build a -30db padded cable for the 5pin input on the front of the camera.

It's all working pretty good so far.  We have had acouple issues with the D4's.  But, the sound quality of the D4 is amazing.  It's sounds just as good as a cable. 

Oh! and me the camera op got along great.  Turned out not to be a big as dick as I thought.

[Eric Toline]

This thread is a little old, but I'm bringing it back as I find it interesting and I might be embarking on some 'reality' situations shortly. 

Where I am located right now, it seems the the soundies in the area are charging flat rates, that is gear and labor into one bundle, so that is what I have grown accustomed too.  I am familiar with the idea that extra things cost extra money. But as I'm newly investing in things such as camera hops and more wireless, how can I get an idea of what a good rate is for these 'extras' without stepping on some unwritten rules about posting these things?

I'm pretty sure that you'll be told what the show will pay for for you and the required gear. Basically it's a take it or leave it situation. OTOH you get what you negotiate.

Eric

[P-Did]

This thread is a little old, but I'm bringing it back as I find it interesting and I might be embarking on some 'reality' situations shortly. 

Where I am located right now, it seems the the soundies in the area are charging flat rates, that is gear and labor into one bundle, so that is what I have grown accustomed too.  I am familiar with the idea that extra things cost extra money. But as I'm newly investing in things such as camera hops and more wireless, how can I get an idea of what a good rate is for these 'extras' without stepping on some unwritten rules about posting these things?

[vin]

actually, after that short turn-around, you would have come in at double-time!

No thank you - I'd pass on such jobs - I dont like working with such people really. :)

-vin (moving away from this thread, I'm feeding it too much OT stuff!)

[rpsharman]

I have the 788T/CL8, and I can't imagine doing the same thing with 2 mixers and a recorder in the bag.  But I am getting old.

The 788T/CL8 will accomplish what you need for the first and second job with more ease than what you are currently proposing.  It can't be much more expensive than the current mixer/Edirol situation.

Robert

[Philip Perkins]

I would also point out that a 2 x 442 rig with 6 or 8 RX and maybe a BU recorder and 2 hop TX and batteries is going to be HEAVY, and BIG.  And you have some long days ahead of you.....   

Philip Perkins

[justanross]

Next thing.  I start on the 15th and work til the 1st, my 442 and four wires are good for this job.  Next month we are in a different city.  I'm gonna need to run 6 wires at most for the next job.  I'm thinking of buying a 302 and linking.  I've never done this.  Am I just taking a stereo feed from it?  And it get's mixed with the tracks from the 442? 

But I'm wondering if I should push a 788 with a CL8 more?  If I am linking two mixers tracks 5 and 6 won't be ISO they'll just be mixed in with the stereo.  Again, please your thoughts and ideas.  Thank you so much for your time.

Justan


Hi Justan,
I've linked a two 442s together as well as a 302 and 442.  The link sends the two outputs of one mixer into the other mixer via the mix in buss.  Two 442s linked would yield 8 input channels.  You would still have the pre fade direct outs available on the input channels.  You would also have the xlr or multipin main outs from both mixers because they are not used for linking.  Linking a 302 is the same but you would get 7 input channels.  Again you would have the direct outs from the 442 for isos, but since the 302 doesn't have direct outs the only way to get isos from that mixer would be from the main xlr outs.  You would have to have the two wires in the 302 panned left and right to have them separated but that panning also determines what the 442 sees in the mix in buss.  The CL8/788t would be a more elegant and potentially lighter solution, but what you are thinking could work.  What are you planning to record the 6 channels on if you use the linked mixers?  Off topic:  Are you still selling your 442?
Best,
Bernie

Hey Bernie,

Yes, what I need is six tracks.  And to answer the second Question is yes I am selling it.  Email me at justanross@gmail.com and we can talk more.

My gut is telling me that I shouldn't do the second job unless I'm gonna get a 788 with a CL8.  Linking and everything else seems like it would be to much of a mess.

[berniebeaudry]

Next thing.  I start on the 15th and work til the 1st, my 442 and four wires are good for this job.  Next month we are in a different city.  I'm gonna need to run 6 wires at most for the next job.  I'm thinking of buying a 302 and linking.  I've never done this.  Am I just taking a stereo feed from it?  And it get's mixed with the tracks from the 442?  

But I'm wondering if I should push a 788 with a CL8 more?  If I am linking two mixers tracks 5 and 6 won't be ISO they'll just be mixed in with the stereo.  Again, please your thoughts and ideas.  Thank you so much for your time.

Justan
[/quote]

Hi Justan,
I've linked a two 442s together as well as a 302 and 442.  The link sends the two outputs of one mixer into the other mixer via the mix in buss.  Two 442s linked would yield 8 input channels.  You would still have the pre fade direct outs available on the input channels.  You would also have the xlr or multipin main outs from both mixers because they are not used for linking.  Linking a 302 is the same but you would get 7 input channels.  Again you would have the direct outs from the 442 for isos, but since the 302 doesn't have direct outs the only way to get isos from that mixer would be from the main xlr outs.  You would have to have the two wires in the 302 panned left and right to have them separated but that panning also determines what the 442 sees in the mix in buss.  The CL8/788t would be a more elegant and potentially lighter solution, but what you are thinking could work.  What are you planning to record the 6 channels on if you use the linked mixers?  Off topic:  Are you still selling your 442?
Best,
Bernie

[justanross]

Justan,

Keep in mind, complication can be your enemy in situations such as this, whereas, simplicity can be your friend.  Simplicity would aim you toward the 788 combo.

John B.

I totally agree.  But as per usual it's a budget thing.

[John Blankenship]

Justan,

Keep in mind, complication can be your enemy in situations such as this, whereas, simplicity can be your friend.  Simplicity would aim you toward the 788 combo.

John B.

[justanross]

Alright gang,

Here's how it's going down.  I talked with the post sound supervisor, he's going to come out to set for the first few days.  They want to try using the D4 and using the 4 tracks on the camera.  The camera is the Panasonic HDX900.  I have a 442 mixer.  We are aware we need special cables, since tracks 3 and 4 are coming from the 5pin with mic input only.  He is also bring a edirol 4 track recorder for back up.  Now we are testing this out and "seeing" if we can make it work.  Any ideas or thoughts from you guys would be great.

Next thing.  I start on the 15th and work til the 1st, my 442 and four wires are good for this job.  Next month we are in a different city.  I'm gonna need to run 6 wires at most for the next job.  I'm thinking of buying a 302 and linking.  I've never done this.  Am I just taking a stereo feed from it?  And it get's mixed with the tracks from the 442? 

But I'm wondering if I should push a 788 with a CL8 more?  If I am linking two mixers tracks 5 and 6 won't be ISO they'll just be mixed in with the stereo.  Again, please your thoughts and ideas.  Thank you so much for your time.

Justan